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Every proposal to govern AI ends up proposing more AI to do the governing. Kelly Forbes works on who is actually accountable when that chain runs out. In this episode, host Robert Rubinstein, Founder of TBLI Group, sits down with Kelly Forbes, Co-Founder and Director of the AI Asia Pacific Institute, a nonprofit working to build responsible AI governance across the region. A dual-qualified lawyer originally focused on international law, Kelly now advises governments, investors, and development banks on AI policy and risk. Timestamps: 00:00 Meeting Kelly Forbes, AI Asia Pacific Institute 04:00 The financial-sector parallel: AI won't shrink an industry, just like 2008 didn't 09:16 Why we may need a second AI just to govern the first one 14:51 Three categories of jobs: eliminated, augmented, and newly created 30:06 Stanford's AI Index: 233 new AI-related risks recorded in a year 38:26 Why luxury brands faced backlash for automating with AI 41:48 "Cognitive debt": what outsourcing our thinking to AI costs us 52:08 Efficiency vs. empathy — and the Anthropic-vs-OpenAI government contract moment 56:10 How to follow the Institute's work Most finance podcasts protect the industry. This one interrogates it. I'm Robert Rubinstein. For 30 years TBLI Group has been the world's leading ESG and impact investing network. Every week on this show, one unfiltered conversation with someone actually moving capital toward a liveable future, and no polite silence about the ones only claiming to. No sponsors. No pretending. We explore: -Why the rise of autonomous AI agents means some organizations are now building a second AI just to govern the first one -The three categories of jobs AI is reshaping: eliminated, augmented, and newly created — and why "AI ethicist" and "Chief AI Officer" barely existed a few years ago -Stanford's AI Index recording 233 new AI-related risks in a single year, and why the industry itself is split between existential fear and unchecked acceleration -Why luxury brands that automated their marketing with AI faced fierce customer backlash — and what that reveals about where human touch still commands a premium -"Cognitive debt": the emerging research question of what outsourcing our thinking to AI is doing to how children learn to reason -The moment Anthropic turned down a U.S. government defense contract on ethical grounds while OpenAI faced backlash for a similar deal — and what it signals about AI companies being judged on ethics, not just capability Also referenced: AI Asia Pacific Institute, Stanford AI Index, LinkedIn workforce data, Gallup/Reuters data center research, Anthropic, OpenAI, RepRisk "The future is not deterministic — it's about what we do next." What every leader can do this week: ask which of your organization's AI use cases require human judgment in high-stakes, high-emotion moments — and make sure a human, not just an agent, is still accountable there. 📌 Subscribe to TBLI Radical Truth for unfiltered, deep-dive discussions with sustainable finance challenging the conventional narratives around impact and the future of finance. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDBhRVM93uUnAAtqOMIz_yg?sub_confirmation=1 EXTRACTION How business takes your money, your work, your resources, your data and your future, while presenting itself as something else entirely. Robert Rubinstein's next book, from 30 years inside the system. If this conversation makes you question where your money is actually going, Extraction takes that investigation much further. Follow its progress in the free Radical Truth Discussion Network: https://tblicircle.com/share/Lnu4hDm8ayILGevs?utm_source=manual TBLI GROUP - https://www.tbligroup.com - Robert Rubinstein on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertrubinstein/ #AIGovernance #ResponsibleAI #ArtificialIntelligence #AIRisk #AIRegulation #FutureOfWork #AIAgents #AIEthics #ImpactInvesting #ESG #TBLIRadicalTruth #KellyForbes

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