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Sushil Kumar, CEO at Cyara, on why agentic AI voice bots damage brands: AI gets you 90–95% of the way there, and the executive job is planning for the other 5–10%. A call can be fully contained, deflected, and rated fine by the customer — and still put your company out of compliance. Sushil Kumar joins Greg Kihlström to break down the gap between AI efficiency gains and real customer outcomes in the contact center. The conversation covers why customers blame the brand rather than the technology, the compliance failures that hide behind a successful containment metric (an airline fined over a refund policy its bot invented; a health insurer's bot answering questions about a caller's spouse), why pass/fail testing breaks against non-deterministic agents, and how closed-loop assurance mines live production calls for personas and adversarial prompts. ▶ CHAPTERS 0:00 The CX paradox: agentic AI's biggest strength is its biggest risk 1:42 Sushil Kumar's background and Cyara's role in agentic CX 2:16 The gap between AI efficiency gains and actual customer outcomes 4:41 Why brand damage lands on you, not the AI vendor 7:13 Invented refund policies, adversarial callers, and PII exposure 9:25 Non-negotiable pre-launch checks: latency, accents, intent recognition 10:52 Hallucination, invisible failures, and policy governance 13:08 Why pass/fail testing breaks in a non-deterministic world 16:05 Beyond containment rate: what to measure inside the call 18:51 Closed-loop assurance and per-call observability 22:08 Where agentic CX goes next, by industry regulation level 25:07 Staying agile: customer grounding as the prioritization lens ▶ ABOUT THE GUEST Sushil Kumar is CEO at Cyara, leading strategy and growth around helping enterprises build trustworthy, AI-driven customer experiences. Before Cyara he was co-founder and CEO of RelicX.ai, a generative AI test automation company acquired by Harness, and previously led product and business organizations at Oracle, CA Technologies, and Broadcom. He has 25+ years leading high-growth teams and multi-hundred-million-dollar product lines, holds a B.Tech from BIT Sindri and an MBA from the Indian Institute of Foreign Trade, and lives in the San Francisco Bay Area. Sushil Kumar on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sushil-kumar-343780/ Cyara: https://cyara.com ▶ LISTEN / SUBSCRIBE Apple Podcasts: https://advertalize.com/r/e1c79f465f56d2c5 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5a7D5JwYfKIhU8pGH2UJtj Full episode playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-BawE82qIM1wUjSAWiBXBFS8XdQMGlcW Leave a review: https://aglbrnd.co/r/faaed112fc9887f3 Newsletter: https://aglbrnd.co/r/35ded3ccfb6716ba Connect with Greg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregkihlstrom The Agile Brand Guide: https://www.agilebrandguide.com ▶ RESOURCES & SPONSORS The Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by TEKsystems. Learn more here: https://aglbrnd.co/r/2868abd8085a9703 We're proud to be a media partner for #MAICON26 – Oct. 13-15! Learn how AI can power your marketing and business and help you grow smarter. Use code AGILE150 to save! https://aglbrnd.co/r/7fe458ced0f04658 Reach your customers with Reddit. Spend $500 in ad spend, get $500 back in ad credit! Learn more: https://advertalize.com/r/491818c79fb1873f Chaser is the only Slack-native project management platform that helps teams turn messages into tracked tasks, automate follow-ups, and maintain team-wide visibility, without adopting another tool. Now integrated with Claude and other GenAI tools. Learn more at trychaser.com and use code AGILEBRAND for a 3-month free trial (normal trial is 14 days). The most influential minds in software, AI, and engineering leadership will be at WeAreDevelopers World Congress North America, September 23-25 in San Jose. Learn more: https://aglbrnd.co/r/60a7299222a7bcf1 Start building your own apps with Replit and get $20 off. Learn more: https://aglbrnd.co/r/93531742a7625a20 The Agile Brand is produced by Missing Link—a Latina-owned strategy-driven, creatively fueled production co-op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. https://www.missinglink.company The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström® — enterprise marketing technology, AI & CX. 800+ episodes since 2019. #AgenticAI #CustomerExperience #ContactCenter

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